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IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by GTDon2 on Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:53 pm

EZT TomCat7 wrote:Are we going to race as teams this week?
I need to see if Neo is planning on race the endurance Series.

I'm not sure if I will be able to race for 2 hours.


We will try and do a 1 hour practice race.

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Sign-ups

Post by GTDon2 on Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:26 pm

Please post your Team Name, car preference, and teammates here.  The season begins Saturday, Sept 8th 7:30 EST @ Daytona 24hrs.  All races will be 2hrs in duration.


Team Name:
Car:
Driver 1:
Driver 2:


Livery requirements: 
number plates with any number
identical team liveries

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by blkghost187 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:45 am

Since I will be at VIR this weekend. I did test for this Saturday. This is the best I can do. Have fun!

2012 Chevy Camaro ZL1
Tune Shared - ifca 1900 st T01
ifca Continental tire testing racing 1900 rate tires pi S753
Lap Time 1:51.889






2015 Mustang GT
Tune Shared - ifca 1900 stgt01
ifca Continental tire testing racing 1900 rate tires pi S740
Lap Time 1:52.27
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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by OneBigMan43 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:24 am

Hey guys. I’m new to the site and haven’t established any official rankings yet. I’ve tested the ‘15 Mustang and dipped into 1:48.9.

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by GTDon2 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:00 am

OneBigMan43 wrote:Hey guys.  I’m new to the site and haven’t established any official rankings yet.  I’ve tested the ‘15 Mustang and dipped into 1:48.9.


Welcome!  Well, which build have you used to hit 1:48.9?  

As a rule with unrated drivers, we like to start you high and assume that you are faster rather than slower.  This means that you would start as though you were a 2000 rated driver in your first race. so, you'd be placed in the S735 build for the Mustang, or the S745 build for the Camaro.  Now if you can hit 48s in these cars than you are indeed fast and perhaps will need to go into the 2100+ level builds in the future.

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by OneBigMan43 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:20 pm

GTDon2 wrote:
OneBigMan43 wrote:Hey guys.  I’m new to the site and haven’t established any official rankings yet.  I’ve tested the ‘15 Mustang and dipped into 1:48.9.


Welcome!  Well, which build have you used to hit 1:48.9?  

As a rule with unrated drivers, we like to start you high and assume that you are faster rather than slower.  This means that you would start as though you were a 2000 rated driver in your first race. so, you'd be placed in the S735 build for the Mustang, or the S745 build for the Camaro.  Now if you can hit 48s in these cars than you are indeed fast and perhaps will need to go into the 2100+ level builds in the future.
This was with the 1800 level build. I will test the cars with both 2000 and 2100 builds.

Update: I did test both cars with level 2000 builds and ran consistent 1:49.2 in the Camaro and 1:49.6 in the Mustang. I did hit 1:48.9 once in the Camaro though.

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by GTDon2 on Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:56 am

OneBigMan43 wrote:
GTDon2 wrote:
OneBigMan43 wrote:Hey guys.  I’m new to the site and haven’t established any official rankings yet.  I’ve tested the ‘15 Mustang and dipped into 1:48.9.


Welcome!  Well, which build have you used to hit 1:48.9?  

As a rule with unrated drivers, we like to start you high and assume that you are faster rather than slower.  This means that you would start as though you were a 2000 rated driver in your first race. so, you'd be placed in the S735 build for the Mustang, or the S745 build for the Camaro.  Now if you can hit 48s in these cars than you are indeed fast and perhaps will need to go into the 2100+ level builds in the future.
This was with the 1800 level build. I will test the cars with both 2000 and 2100 builds.

Update:  I did test both cars with level 2000 builds and ran consistent 1:49.2 in the Camaro and 1:49.6 in the Mustang. I did hit 1:48.9 once in the Camaro though.  


That's really good!  Okay, so you are among the fast guys, and will begin as a 2000 level driver.  You could fall down to a 1900 type driver from time to time too, just depends on your results.

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Post race results from test race

Post by GTDon2 on Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:14 am

Okay boys, that was indeed interesting and predictable for a first time out.  As with any new format the first race is always a "cluster" but given the somewhat complicated nature of this unique format, everyone did very well to grasp it.  

Once we got past Morbids whining, complaints, and criticisms, things went very well. lol (JK Morbid, I think your points were/are valid and to be considered seriously).  Allow me to upon advice from Morbid, Nelly, and others, to address the modifications to the format for the regular season as we get closer to Sept 8th a little later.  But first, let me review what has happened.  Great turn out everyone!  This is what you need to make this a viable series.  We had 13 drivers resulting in 6 random teams plus a single.  Singles don't really work correctly for this so it is important to get a partner.

It was helpful for Morbid to suggest we not go full format mode with everyone in separate parties just yet since there would be a lot of questions on what to do and how to proceed during the test race.  This allowed everyone to start to understand the routine of the relay format and double check that they were doing it right during the race.  Next week we should all have enough experience to go mic-less as intended for the regular season.

This was also a good experiment for seeing what happens when you randomly pair up drivers of different skill levels, because it shows that done in this less than optimum way everyone still has fun and retains competitive chances nonetheless.  My honest money was on perhaps the only intended team of this test race of PedanticSquirel and Nelly.  Squirrel is a legitimate 2000 level driver who is just under the limit at 1998.721 as luck would have it, thus allowing him the better BoP tires.  Nelly is a solid 1900 level driver at 1936.704.  That's a combined average of 1967.713.  But it turns out that FRB Incognito with his 1941.930 rating paired with me at 2005.124, was an even stronger duo with a combined average rating of 1973.527.  This also suggests that the BoP tire model works very well since I was forced to run on the narrow tires and was still just as competitive as I needed to be.

Essentially, we were the stronger team but running on weaker tires.  The result was that we lead most of the race and won, but were not the absolute fastest during the race.  And this is what you want to see for strong parity.  You want the averages to prevail over the exceptions generally.  That way a slower team can have a real chance to win.  I know of no other league series where this is a real intended possibility.  Any other series you are what you are.  If you are fast you will be in lobby 1, and if you are slow, you will be at the back in lobby 2,3,4 or whatever with zero chances to win against the best drivers.   

But not here at the IFCA Continental Tire Endurance series!  Here you share the driving duties, and if you are velocity challenged, you get aid in the form of tire upgrades matched to your skill level.  It won't be enough to make you a 2100+ driver or enough to guarantee you the win, but it will be slightly better and give you a greater chance for victory than at any other series out there.  

Slower drivers will not have to wonder if their car isn't up to the level of the fast guys for example.  Always a nagging annoyance in other series, i.e., "do I have the best build and tune for this thing?"  Here, you can know for a fact that you not only have a car of equality to the faster drivers, but that your car is, in fact, superior by the numbers.  How cool is that for all the underdogs out there?

So, here are the numbers of last nights test race:

Pole position went to GTDon even though he was the lone 2000 level driver on the worst tire set, with a 1:49.363 in the S745 Camaro.  Second was Morbid in the S753 Camaro, 1900 level tire set with a 1:49.421.

Everyone picked the Camaro over the Mustang, and everyone except GTDon was in BoP 1900 level tires.  A bit unusual since we always have some 1800 level drivers on slicks.  So, either people are getting better, or they are slightly overrated at the moment. 

Fastest lap went to PendanticSquirel with a 1:49.102, second fastest was GTDon with a 1:49.449, and third fastest was TheyCallMeBubz with a 1:49.620.

Finishing order and points:
1st GTDon2/FRB Incognito
average rating 1973.527
35+1 for pole = 36pts

2nd lx Morbid xl/Midnite Rider
average rating 1965.651
32pts

3rd Lanrell21/Poennaninova
average rating 1932.808
30pts

4th was a tie (ties broken by ratings calculation average)
SirKane2/LongColePole
average rating 1917.199
28pts

5thEZT Neo/ EZT TomCat7 
average rating 1911.671
26pts

6th PendanticSquirel/Nelly D Racer (premature pit)
average rating 1967.713
25+1 for fastest lap = 26pts

7th TheyCallMeBubz (single)
estimated rating 1980.999
24pts

Due to the test nature of this race we will not be rating it.  Concerning ratings in this format, it is recommended that you team up with a driver equal to your own skill level so that a slower driver doesn't drag a faster driver down, or faster driver pull someone up, especially with the tire BoP in place.  The last thing a slower driver wants or needs is to be on skinny tires. Better is to seek out another driver like yourself so you can practice together on the same tires and challenge each other equally.  Much more fun that way.  And remember, at the end of the race as both drivers do the very last stint together, you are racing for your individual ratings at that point.  So while you want to finish 1 and 2, you also want to be ahead of your teammate one assumes. lol

Now, onto the recommended changes for next week:

Everyone mentioned that they would like more leeway in pit lap choice and thus strategy.  We can do this just as we have in the past.  It works like this. You and your teammate can decide which lap you pit on for each stint, BUT, you both must pit on that same lap number for it to work out.  The only mandatory pit number is lap 15. So for example, instead of pitting at regular 5lap intervals as we did in this race, you could decide to pit on lap 6 on the first stint, lap 11 on the second stint, and lap 15 on the third stint.  Whatever number you choose, is the same lap number your teammate must pit on as well.  Another team could choose to pit on lap 4, 9, and 15.  In this way it becomes impossible to tell exactly who is in the lead until towards the end of the race and the final run to the checker.  Makes it much more fun and exciting this way as each team tries to strategically guess when to pit and when their rivals are going to pit.

Instead of making this a 2hr+ endurance race we are going to keep it closer to a 1hr+ endurance race of just 37laps total.  So, in reality, that's 15laps x 2 drivers = 30laps + 7laps to finish line.  That's a total lap count for the race of 37laps.  Approximately 1hr and 10min.  Our first race was 1hr and 4min.

Just to recap, you will do 3 stints and your teammate will do 3 stints until you both get to the end of lap 15, then you will both exit the pits and race the final 7laps together.  

We will allow teams to pick which driver will lead off even if that driver wasn't the qualifier.  Whichever driver leads at the start of the race will be the last driver to leave the pits to finish the race is why.  So, teams may want their fastest driver to qualify, and be the secondary driver and not the lead driver.  That way the faster driver will have the lead coming out of the pits for the last 7laps.  Again there is a strategy to this.  Do you want your fast driver to build a lead from the start, or be there at the end to run the slower leaders down?

Good hunting out there!

P.S., I will post the builds for the next 2 cars for next weeks revised test race soon so be checking in today.

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Hellcat vs McClaren

Post by GTDon2 on Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:29 pm


2015 Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat


1800 level drivers Race/widest S768
677hp/622tq/3,479lbs

1900 level drivers Race/355/30R20 - 295/35R20 S763
677hp/622tq/3,470lbs

2000 level drivers Race/335/35R20 -  295/35R20 S760
677hp/622tq/3,463lbs

2100+ level drivers Race/325/35R20 - 285/40R20  S757
677hp/622tq/3,457lbs

Race airfilter
Race pistons
Homologation restrictor plate
Race brakes
Race suspension
Race anti-roll bars
Sport roll cage
Race weight reduction
Race clutch
Race transmission
Race driveline
Race diff
Lightest wheels
Forza downforce rear
Wide body kit




2015 McLaren 570s Coupe


1800 level drivers Race/widest S780
562hp/442tq/3,061lbs

1900 level drivers Sport/widest S764
562hp/442tq/3,061lbs

2000 level drivers Sport/315/30R20 - 265/30R19 S762
562hp/442tq/3,058lbs

2100+ level drivers Sport/305/35R20 - 245/30R19  S757
562hp/442tq/3,049lbs

Race flywheel
Race suspension
Race anti-roll bars
Race roll cage
Race clutch
Race transmission
Race diff
Forza down force front and rear

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by GTDon2 on Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:17 pm

FYI, LongColePole put together a cool little IFCA race badge/logo everyone should try to use especially if you are painting your cars yourself.  Just search IFCA in the paint app.

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by GTDon2 on Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:25 pm

I have shared both my 1900 level builds for both cars.

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by EZT TomCat7 on Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:20 am

I may need a Team mate for this weeks race.
Neo is out of town and he's not sure if he will be back in time to race.


I did have a 1:51.8 in the McLaren, but it was dirty. The Dodge is a little faster though.
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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by GTDon2 on Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:37 am

EZT TomCat7 wrote:I may need a Team mate for this weeks race.
Neo is out of town and he's not sure if he will be back in time to race.


I did have a 1:51.8 in the McLaren, but it was dirty. The Dodge is a little faster though.


I'm sure we will have someone for you Tom

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by Midnite Rider on Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:10 pm

I am available Tom, I still do not have a teammate so I can stand in for you. Either car is good but I think I am better in the Dodge than the McLaren but am willing to drive whatever you need me to. If you don't want to though, I understand.
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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by OneBigMan43 on Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:49 am

I won’t be able to make tonight’s race. I have some overtime this weekend. Have fun at the race and will see y’all next week

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by GTDon2 on Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:05 am

OneBigMan43 wrote:I won’t be able to make tonight’s race.  I have some overtime this weekend.  Have fun at the race and will see y’all next week

Okay man. Work sucks!

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Post race recap

Post by GTDon2 on Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:34 pm

Hey guys, I think we are getting the format down now after 2 test races.  There is only 1 more test race left before the regular season begins on Sept 8th.  

For this final test race next week, we should be able to go mic-less now that most everyone understands what to do.  You and your teammate will go to your own private party after qualifying and the grid is set.  And as I said in the lobby today, you will be allowed to use any of the 25 cars for this last test race.  I plan on having all the builds posted on the master build sheet by Sunday night.

Very good clean racing today btw. As you all could see it isn't hard to screw up and do something that will cost you a lot of time.  Whether it is an inattentive driver exchange, or forgetting what lap to pit on, bad things can and do happen.  The key is to have good communications with your teammate and help remind each other what is going on all the time.  Teams that are good at this have the fewest mistakes and usually the best finishes over faster teams who do not stay aware the whole race.

Of course the more teams we have the more fun this format becomes.  It is incumbent on all of us to gather up as many drivers as we can and get them to experience this rare format of true team racing, where you are only as fast as your slowest driver.  So please, talk to your friends, even people you haven't talked to for a while and get them to practice with you.  Then get them to join the series.  There is enough room for 12 teams in a lobby!

ratings from tonights race to follow...


OKay here are the results:

Pole went to GTDon in his Hellcat with a 1:48.520 in a 2000 level build. 2nd went to Sirkane also in a Hellcat but in a 1900 level build with a 1:50.285.  And 3rd on the grid went to TheyCallMeBubz in a 1900 level McLaren with a 1:50.387.

The interesting comparison is between all the pole times and fastest laps of the different cars used thus far, which indicate strong parity:

Dodge Hellcat 1:48.520 (GTDon 2000 level) 1:48.563
Mustang GT350 1:48.689 (GTDon 1900 level) 1:48.017 (draft assisted)
Merc AMG GTR  1:49.517 (GTDon 1900 level) 1:49.517
2012 Camaro 1:49.363 (GTDon 2000 level) 1:49.102

What's interesting is that the majority of drivers regardless of what tire level BoP they use can not break the 1:50.000 barrier.  Which means that the testing has succeeded for these cars because they were all tested to run into the 1:49s.  This means that your average driver is not yet able to fully optimize the available performance these cars offer.  Or put in another way, the cars are somewhat better than the drivers driving them.  And this is a good thing.  You want a car that has greater potential so you can know that if you practice harder you can go faster.

Finishing order and points:

1st GTDon2/FRB Incognito
average rating 1973.527
35+1 for pole +1 for fastest lap = 37pts

2nd SPEEDYJAB09/TheyCallMeBubz
average rating 1931.193
32pts

3rd Midnite Rider/Sirkane
average rating 1932.101
30pts



 Race Results      
  PreraceExpectedActualPerformedPostraceGained/
PlcRacerRatingFinishFinishLikeRatingLost
1GTDon22005.1241120052005.1240
2FRB Incognito1941.932219421943.0891
3TheyCallMeBubz1930.7126319381931.2341
4SPEEDYJAB091930.9995419331931.1510
5Midnite Rider1933.3423519321932.519-1
6SirKane2  1932.6944619311931.683-1
7LongPoleCole1901.7037719021901.7030
8EZT TomCat71901.6418819021901.6410

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by LongPoleCole on Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:16 pm

WTF!!!!! You can not be serious, Don! Tomcat and I raced hard the whole race, had a little hiccup with the tag in, but the rest of you guys nearly lapped us!!! How in the HELL did we not warrant a drop in ratings?? This is some serious doodoo, brother!!! PLEASE, go back and recalculate these ratings. And I would really like to see the way these ratings are calculated, because they don't make any sense to me. The whole point of the ratings was to help slower guys become more competitive, and feel like they had the potential to get to the podium.

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by Midnite Rider on Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:10 pm

GTDon2 wrote:FYI, LongColePole put together a cool little IFCA race badge/logo everyone should try to use especially if you are painting your cars yourself.  Just search IFCA in the paint app.
I looked at it but I recreated ti myself as the black flag did not show up well on my paints, I converted the black flag to white and used red for the lettering. drunken
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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by GTDon2 on Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:31 pm

LongPoleCole wrote:WTF!!!!!  You can not be serious,  Don!  Tomcat and I raced hard the whole race, had a little hiccup with the tag in,  but the rest of you guys nearly lapped us!!! How in the HELL did we not warrant a drop in ratings?? This is some serious doodoo, brother!!! PLEASE, go back and recalculate these ratings. And I would really like to see the way these ratings are calculated,  because they don't make any sense to me. The whole point of the ratings was to help slower guys become more competitive, and feel  like they had the potential to get to the podium.


lol, slow down there partner!!! lol, The ratings are not for that purpose, the tire BoP is.  

The ratings must remain as they are and have been, for consistency. The reason no one's ratings moved very much is because everyone performed mostly as expected against drivers who were very close in skill.  

If you lose to a person close to your rating very little points are taken away.  If you lose to a person rated higher than you no points will be taken, AND no points will be given to the higher rated driver either.  Why?  Because he being the higher rated driver is expected to beat you.  So even though I beat everyone, the computer says that I should have, because I am so much higher rated than everyone in the lobby.  That's why it says right there on the chart the "expected finish" of 1st for me in this group.  If we were to give fast guys points for beating up on all the slow guys their ratings would inflate and the slow guys would deflate to zero. lol  So this is why fast guys can only gain points from faster guys.  And why we don't allow fast guys to steal points from slower guys.

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by LongPoleCole on Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:22 pm

Hey guys, I think my post came across a little more angry then funny!! Remember, I tease Don about "cheat-code" and you know I'm being funny, a little tongue-in-cheek. I've built a relationship with not only Don, but a lot of you, where I say mean things because it makes you laugh, and you know I'm not really mean.
That being said, Tom did get lapped and I would have been too, if there had been another lap. Come on man, throw us a bone here!! TomCat and myself need the extra grip, if only for the season opener. If we were 10-15 points from the cut off, I wouldn't ask, but 2 points?? Could we at least put it to a vote with the other racers???
Anyway, I am NOT actually angry, and I truly love our Saturday evening league!! That's why I help anyone who asks, and even offer to share tunes and paint. And I need you guys, helps with the PTSD and depression. Thanks

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by GTDon2 on Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:37 pm

Lol i thought it was funny

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by speedyjab09 on Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:07 am

I have a question. I have been out of IFCA racing since FM4 so i dont have a rating to start with. I ran with the 2000 tune and had the 3rd fastest lap time in the race. How did I start with an expected 5th? If we are a relay team, wouldn't it make sense to group both drivers as expected starts and finishing positions? If we were racing at the same time, all the time but as a team, that makes sense to have different expected starts and finishes. At any rate, fun race and good to get back to clean racing.
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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by GTDon2 on Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:20 am

speedyjab09 wrote:I have a question. I have been out of IFCA racing since FM4 so i dont have a rating to start with. I ran with the 2000 tune and had the 3rd fastest lap time in the race. How did I start with an expected 5th? If we are a relay team, wouldn't it make sense to group both drivers as expected starts and finishing positions? If we were racing at the same time, all the time but as a team, that makes sense to have different expected starts and finishes. At any rate, fun race and good to get back to clean racing.

Good question. Your rating is provisional at the moment which is to say an educated guess. It takes 13 races for your rating to stabilize. You will be rated as an individual because the format allows you to battle for position over the last 7 laps versus your teammate. Typically the higher rated driver will finish first.

I would have to start an entirely different ratings ladder to do teams, and with so few, and so many who come and go it wouldn't be worth it.

This is why i said at the end of 15 it was time to fight for my rating and get ahead of incognito. In this way there is always something to race for even if you are not going to win the race. Lol

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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

Post by speedyjab09 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:21 am

LongPoleCole wrote:
 That being said,  Tom did get lapped and I would have been too, if there had been another lap. Come on man, throw us a bone here!! TomCat and myself need the extra grip, if only for the season opener. If we were 10-15 points from the cut off, I wouldn't ask, but 2 points??  Could we at least put it to a vote with the other racers??

What tune were you running, 1900? It seems to me that each tune gives you 1/2 sec to one sec gain. I wouldn't have an issue if your test average confirms your race pace. That being said, if we make the exception for you, someone else could sandbag for the tests and then argue for a bigger gap to gain an advantage for the season.
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Re: IFCA Continental Tire Test Racing

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