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IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by TRCShadowBoxing on Wed May 13, 2009 3:17 pm

12 TPR Raikkonen and 152 TTR Sinister are the same person, GT Change.

VVV GTDon wrote:

I got on the list based on head to head competition against one of your own, TRC factory, a well known hot lapper and great driver. We had a well publicized grudge match race, best 2 out of 3, and I won. It was all in good fun and something to get the fans excited about, but, by winning I was allowed onto the list ahead of TRC factory who was already there.

So, if you feel like you should be on the list, challenge someone! Smile Otherwise you could wait until I formulate a test of some sort to evaluate your skill level.

TRC factory is NOT a RACER! Razz

I drop 76 spots( do to all these new names i do not see) yet YOU go up 3? (to 100th)

I thought i had done enough to break the top 100 of this list. ( Coming from 130th)
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by King's Egg on Wed May 13, 2009 3:23 pm

Don come on!!!

How can YOU, FLEX and BUSA be infront of ME!!! lol

I challenge you right away! lol

I'm fine with Nonni and Shota infront of me. I know they are as good or even better then me.



Just one thing!

Speed at 21th!!! You teammate cheaters!!!
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by TRC GeorgiaDawg on Wed May 13, 2009 3:23 pm

36th, well, that atleast seems a bit more reasonable. Although I still find it low.

I like the idea of this list. But I think it's time you guys figure out what you want it to be. To me it appears to have too much personal opinion involved in the rankings. That may just be appearance and the reality may be different but it appears that way to me.

And I believe exhibition should carry more weight. Go look at the top of those boards, the names up there are just as impressive as any other. And it does require running consistently fast laps. Which should tell just as much about a a racer as any other ranking. Forzastats even has a team exhibition ranking going on....which has greatly increased the competition there.

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by King's Egg on Wed May 13, 2009 3:27 pm

And I think you are missing some F4H members like:
F4H Euskosati
F4H Fullspe3D
F4H Raoo1
F4H Castell8
F4H Samco


And what about:
RSI Johnwip
overrid3R
VVV Jason M (same skill level as VVV Mattystang in my opinion)
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by VVV Mattystang on Wed May 13, 2009 3:34 pm

King's Egg wrote:And I think you are missing some F4H members like:
F4H Euskosati
F4H Fullspe3D
F4H Raoo1
F4H Castell8
F4H Samco


And what about:
RSI Johnwip
overrid3R
VVV Jason M (same skill level as VVV Mattystang in my opinion)

Yes, but can he paint?????Razz
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by TRCShadowBoxing on Wed May 13, 2009 3:36 pm

VVV Mattystang wrote:

Yes, but can he paint?????Razz

Laughing
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by Lippakorv on Wed May 13, 2009 3:37 pm

Hamilton is only driving the F50 GT! Smile
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by Lippakorv on Wed May 13, 2009 3:39 pm

VVV Mattystang wrote:
King's Egg wrote:And I think you are missing some F4H members like:
F4H Euskosati
F4H Fullspe3D
F4H Raoo1
F4H Castell8
F4H Samco


And what about:
RSI Johnwip
overrid3R
VVV Jason M (same skill level as VVV Mattystang in my opinion)

Yes, but can he paint?????Razz

He is not as good as you, but don't forget that he made some of the F1 paints. Smile
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by AAR GTDon on Wed May 13, 2009 3:48 pm

TRC GeorgiaDawg wrote:
Chilledheat wrote:well i can explain GDawg's - he doesn't compete in IFCA events (or at least his connection doesn't allow so) - i think IFCA events are weighted more heavily than some other aspects

Granted, I have yet to be able to compete in IFCA series stuff. Although I have participated some in the RP hotlap and was actually the first person to accept and race one of the challenge matches for this deal. But, frankly, I didn't get involved with the Spec series for a while simply due to the cars. I have no desire to even hotlap FWD or AWD crapboxes. The previous season's RWD crapbox did get my attention though. So, I wanted to give it a try, but, I knew going in my silly connection would probably be a issue, and it was, so I couldn't go.

I'm with you there Dawg, not too good with the Spec cars sometimes, and I've had a lot of bad luck in the series from time to time too.

But really, 66th. This is supposed to be a ranking of the best players. How does 15th in hotlap, with no draft, and one track (ring) holding me back from the top 10 plus 3rd in exhibition (multilap) equal the 66th ranking.

And GTDon at 100th? I'm sorry, but Shadowboxing has done more in Hotlap and from my understanding killed him in the spec series but somehow don is in 100th, but Shadow is in 206th. Won't even go into how silly having Scorpion at 295th given how some others have been awarded their ranks pretty much solely on their reputation and performance from FM1.

You are correct Dawg, my stats did not and do not support my ranking as is the case with many very good drivers on the list. I originally got on it not by writing my own name in, but by defeating TRC factory who was hovering around the top 100 at the time. From there I've won an IFCA series event, placed 5th in the overall IFCA championship in 08, and 5th in the hotly contested "GamingExtreme Challenge." I've also defeated some of the biggest names in Forza2 in heads up and series racing, casually and officially. It's not that I'm better than they are, or even as good, it's just that I am at a skill level that is good enough to occasionally beat the fastest guys. In order to do that you have to be ranked pretty high, at least somewhere in the top 100-150 I'd say.

As I look around at the other names on the list there are drivers ranked lower than me who could take my ranking from me easy, just as there are some drivers above me I could beat. Those right around the 100 mark are drivers who are generally at my skill level. Flex is probably a little better than me, but we always have close fun races, and, I beat him in last seasons Endurance race on the last lap at Silverstone National! (really fun race Flex!) It's like in pro tennis, can a top 100 guy beat a top 10 guy? Sure, but only rarely, and he has to be a real top 100 guy to do it. It's the same here.

I usually run neck and neck with Iridium, TRC MOVINTARGET, ComebackDan (sometimes) DisplacedRace, VVV DJT R,VVV Koenigsegg, F4H Gashi, AMG Impala, Inviseco, and I'm pretty sure some of these guys are top 100 or better.

Another way to look at it is, if 100th ranked VVV GTDon can beat and has beaten even some on the top 10 (JED), from time to time, how much more likely is it that he might beat those in the top 100 or slower? Odds are pretty good I'm going to do a lot better against those slower than the top 100. Good enough for me to claim the 100th position? Yes, I think so, for now. lol

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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by AAR GTDon on Wed May 13, 2009 3:50 pm

King's Egg wrote:And I think you are missing some F4H members like:
F4H Euskosati
F4H Fullspe3D
F4H Raoo1
F4H Castell8
F4H Samco


And what about:
RSI Johnwip
overrid3R
VVV Jason M (same skill level as VVV Mattystang in my opinion)

Ahh yes right you are, see, some of these guys are very fast, but have little or no stats to record and compile. I will add these guys soon, thx.

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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by AAR GTDon on Wed May 13, 2009 3:54 pm

TRCShadowBoxing wrote:12 TPR Raikkonen and 152 TTR Sinister are the same person, GT Change.

VVV GTDon wrote:

I got on the list based on head to head competition against one of your own, TRC factory, a well known hot lapper and great driver. We had a well publicized grudge match race, best 2 out of 3, and I won. It was all in good fun and something to get the fans excited about, but, by winning I was allowed onto the list ahead of TRC factory who was already there.

So, if you feel like you should be on the list, challenge someone! Smile Otherwise you could wait until I formulate a test of some sort to evaluate your skill level.

TRC factory is NOT a RACER! Razz

I drop 76 spots( do to all these new names i do not see) yet YOU go up 3? (to 100th)

I thought i had done enough to break the top 100 of this list. ( Coming from 130th)

I will review yours later today, because I agree, you should be higher, just not sure why you landed there yet. Trust me guys this took untold hours, and I know there are some mistakes or minor corrections to be made.

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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by AAR GTDon on Wed May 13, 2009 3:56 pm

King's Egg wrote:Don come on!!!

How can YOU, FLEX and BUSA be infront of ME!!! lol

I challenge you right away! lol

I'm fine with Nonni and Shota infront of me. I know they are as good or even better then me.



Just one thing!

Speed at 21th!!! You teammate cheaters!!!

Hahahahaha!!!!!! Too funny!!!! I'm slightly ahead of you mainly because of the Endurance Championship win I had with SP33D. lol

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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by King's Egg on Wed May 13, 2009 3:58 pm

Sorry, F4H Samco is already on.

You posted F4H Bigknell, but it is TRC Bigknell.

EDIT: Sorry never mind, I was confused with TRC BigJim. Almost is the same. Wink
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by TRC GeorgiaDawg on Wed May 13, 2009 5:01 pm

VVV GTDon wrote:
TRC GeorgiaDawg wrote:
Chilledheat wrote:well i can explain GDawg's - he doesn't compete in IFCA events (or at least his connection doesn't allow so) - i think IFCA events are weighted more heavily than some other aspects

Granted, I have yet to be able to compete in IFCA series stuff. Although I have participated some in the RP hotlap and was actually the first person to accept and race one of the challenge matches for this deal. But, frankly, I didn't get involved with the Spec series for a while simply due to the cars. I have no desire to even hotlap FWD or AWD crapboxes. The previous season's RWD crapbox did get my attention though. So, I wanted to give it a try, but, I knew going in my silly connection would probably be a issue, and it was, so I couldn't go.

I'm with you there Dawg, not too good with the Spec cars sometimes, and I've had a lot of bad luck in the series from time to time too.

But really, 66th. This is supposed to be a ranking of the best players. How does 15th in hotlap, with no draft, and one track (ring) holding me back from the top 10 plus 3rd in exhibition (multilap) equal the 66th ranking.

And GTDon at 100th? I'm sorry, but Shadowboxing has done more in Hotlap and from my understanding killed him in the spec series but somehow don is in 100th, but Shadow is in 206th. Won't even go into how silly having Scorpion at 295th given how some others have been awarded their ranks pretty much solely on their reputation and performance from FM1.

You are correct Dawg, my stats did not and do not support my ranking as is the case with many very good drivers on the list. I originally got on it not by writing my own name in, but by defeating TRC factory who was hovering around the top 100 at the time. From there I've won an IFCA series event, placed 5th in the overall IFCA championship in 08, and 5th in the hotly contested "GamingExtreme Challenge." I've also defeated some of the biggest names in Forza2 in heads up and series racing, casually and officially. It's not that I'm better than they are, or even as good, it's just that I am at a skill level that is good enough to occasionally beat the fastest guys. In order to do that you have to be ranked pretty high, at least somewhere in the top 100-150 I'd say.

As I look around at the other names on the list there are drivers ranked lower than me who could take my ranking from me easy, just as there are some drivers above me I could beat. Those right around the 100 mark are drivers who are generally at my skill level. Flex is probably a little better than me, but we always have close fun races, and, I beat him in last seasons Endurance race on the last lap at Silverstone National! (really fun race Flex!) It's like in pro tennis, can a top 100 guy beat a top 10 guy? Sure, but only rarely, and he has to be a real top 100 guy to do it. It's the same here.

I usually run neck and neck with Iridium, TRC MOVINTARGET, ComebackDan (sometimes) DisplacedRace, VVV DJT R,VVV Koenigsegg, F4H Gashi, AMG Impala, Inviseco, and I'm pretty sure some of these guys are top 100 or better.

Another way to look at it is, if 100th ranked VVV GTDon can beat and has beaten even some on the top 10 (JED), from time to time, how much more likely is it that he might beat those in the top 100 or slower? Odds are pretty good I'm going to do a lot better against those slower than the top 100. Good enough for me to claim the 100th position? Yes, I think so, for now. lol

I'm not really disputing your position. I am aware of your accomplishments, and really your spot is probably about right in my opinion. I'm just saying, that if you're in 100th, then Shadow based on his IFCA performance and his hotlap accomplishments (as limited as they are, I'm trying to spur him along) warrant a higher rank. Just sayin.....

Same thing goes for the comparison I made to TPR Raikkonen. If he's in 12th, which I think is a bit high for him, but definitely should be in the top 20-25, then I feel like that's where guys like myself and (god am I really about to say this) Greeksniper should be there as well if the rankings were holding to some kind of formula. None of us have really particpated in IFCA, so that's not a consideration in the difference.
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by TRC BlackIce on Wed May 13, 2009 5:09 pm

Regardless of the expected list discrepencies, I love the fact it always generates this kind of "conversation" amongst the community's best...and in some cases gives people the drive (excuse the pun) to bump up their competitive level within the game.

This is why I love the sim racing world, more importantly FM2, and more importantly the IFCA...love 'em or hate 'em, the IFCA has played a large role in injecting the sim racing community with high level competition in one way or the other(and no, I'm not an IFCA fanboy by any means, I just enjoy running in some of their events, but still have my reservations about certain things).
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by MIGHTY FLEX on Wed May 13, 2009 5:11 pm

o rusty hawk o is now myshankurfacez
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by TRC BlackIce on Wed May 13, 2009 5:14 pm

AMG Sneaky Pete is now Jeebus Pete...and though I'm not his biggest fan, I believe he is one that is dramatically under-ranked.
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by Harp5 on Wed May 13, 2009 5:45 pm

11# II ProdiJaY X - 34# GSR Watson -- same person
45# FrustratedFetus - 146# IXI Orii -- same person

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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by TRC BigJim on Wed May 13, 2009 6:29 pm

HiPLaiNSDRiFTeR is listed at #180 and then again at #292
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by AAR GTDon on Wed May 13, 2009 6:51 pm

Thanks for the help, hints, and corrections on all of this guys. I really do want the list to be as good as it can be. I will make the corrections asap or within the next 48 hours.

Just so everyone knows, and understands, the list could not be stricktly based on the cold hard statistics alone, because they do not provide a complete picture of each drivers performance history past or present, in a uniform way that can be measured one against the other. This was attempted early on, but was soon realized that if only numbers were used many of the best drivers on the list would not see the light of day.

A certain flexible rational assesment has to be used to temper the raw data, so the objective numbers guiding the formula does not rule over the subjective realities. In other words, there is an ongoing compromise that allows for the analysis to go slightly beyond what the numbers can produce. The foundation stones are the performance figures, but the morter is often just an educated guess.

To do what we are doing is of course far different than what is already done by looking at the FM2 scoreboards. If you want to see who is #1 on TTs, or Hot laps, you can see it there. No need for anything more, right? Not exactly. Is the #5 TT driver also as good or better than the #5 Hot Lapper? What about a fast driver who has no scoreboard stats to speak of, but beats many of the best in series racing? Is the driver who is ranked 234,578th in TTs and 33rd in Hot Lapping, better than the driver ranked 33rd in TTs, and 234,578th in Hot Lapping?

The problem is we do want something more definitive and all encompassing, but as soon as you dig beyond the most basic black and white numbers in multiple catagories you begin to enter a mirky world of subjective understanding. If there was a pro league (and the IFCA is not) it would be very easy to set the true pecking order just like pro Tennis or Golf.


Last edited by VVV GTDon on Thu May 14, 2009 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by kiknmotorsports on Wed May 13, 2009 8:01 pm

It is good to see people taking interest once again in thier rankings...... (even if the sweedish disaprove of my #21 rank). I was hoping for a top 20 spot but only gained 1 position landing me #21, I do not see much else possible as I don't know how much more I can do (or have time to do).

I do not consider myself over or under-ranked because of these small facts:

A-1. All of my hotlaps are done without ever touching a scoreboard car (cannot expect to be ranked very high)
A-2. My time trials are average at best (most arent to my full potential because of the particular cars used [scoreboard-like cars])
A-3. I do not remember running in any hotlap challenges.


B-1. I have won multiple championships during my time with the IFCA including multiple FWC, Spec (individual and team), and Endurance championships and a 3rd place overall in the IFCA 2008 runoffs. (IFCA-IROC)
B-2. I Have challenged and won as well as I have been challenged and won as well, securing my possition as well as bettering it.
B-3. I have won multiple championships outside the IFCA (which do not contribute to the list, but help me understand my being ranked so high).

I do not feel anyone is contesting my rank, I'm simply expressing my feelings on my rank. Do I wish it was Higher? yes...... Do I feel it should be? ... I can see why it is not.....

And finally, Koenigsegg, I only moved up the list 1 position, why cry now??? i've been #22 for EVER. (and you have no place to talk about cheaters Suspect )
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by PpR JAY on Wed May 13, 2009 8:02 pm

AMG SaNe and ART SaNe are the same person... he goes by ART SaNe Now but both names are on the list

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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by Lippakorv on Wed May 13, 2009 8:17 pm

kiknmotorsports wrote:It is good to see people taking interest once again in thier rankings...... (even if the sweedish disaprove of my #21 rank). I was hoping for a top 20 spot but only gained 1 position landing me #21, I do not see much else possible as I don't know how much more I can do (or have time to do).

I do not consider myself over or under-ranked because of these small facts:

A-1. All of my hotlaps are done without ever touching a scoreboard car (cannot expect to be ranked very high)
A-2. My time trials are average at best (most arent to my full potential because of the particular cars used [scoreboard-like cars])
A-3. I do not remember running in any hotlap challenges.


B-1. I have won multiple championships during my time with the IFCA including multiple FWC, Spec (individual and team), and Endurance championships and a 3rd place overall in the IFCA 2008 runoffs. (IFCA-IROC)
B-2. I Have challenged and won as well as I have been challenged and won as well, securing my possition as well as bettering it.
B-3. I have won multiple championships outside the IFCA (which do not contribute to the list, but help me understand my being ranked so high).

I do not feel anyone is contesting my rank, I'm simply expressing my feelings on my rank. Do I wish it was Higher? yes...... Do I feel it should be? ... I can see why it is not.....

And finally, Koenigsegg, I only moved up the list 1 position, why cry now??? i've been #22 for EVER. (and you have no place to talk about cheaters Suspect )

There's a hole lot of crap coming out of that hamburger-english speaking mouth when you open it! Rolling Eyes
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by Gabuyaux on Wed May 13, 2009 10:15 pm

Why am I so far back compared with some of my teammates?

Also some people that I thought got the short end of the stick:
AMG Sneaky Pete (Jeebus Pete) and HLR King Cobra

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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

Post by LoCo ArMeN on Wed May 13, 2009 10:46 pm

DRAMA!!!!!!!! Don, you should put this on MTV!
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Re: IFCA Forza World Rankings Official List - (Updated:May'09)

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